McCain controlled the debate tonight. He came off as a brittle, grumpy, mean-spirited old coot, but on the economy — which should have been Obama’s strong suit — McCain managed to divert the conversation to tax cuts and kept Obama off the kitchen table issues where he excels. McCain was allowed to paint himself as a crusader for reform, and no mention was made of the Keating 5 — though Obama did manage to tie him to voting for all of Bush’s budgets. (McCain’s only rejoinder was to refer to himself repeatedly as "no Miss Congeniality." Huh?)
But the biggest problem for me was that McCain had a grab bag of adjectives he consistently used to characterize Obama — "naive, inexperienced" — and every time he repeated them, it was like money in the bank. He worked them in at every opportunity, and their cumulative effect wore into Obama as the evening went on. Obama missed the opportunity to do the same and characterize McCain as brittle, rash, impulsive and out-of-touch. His critiques were all over the place, and his failure to tie them together into a coherent narrative about McCain meant that he never really grazed the old buzzard.
The good news? Well, McCain sounded bitter and looked hunched over and mean. He wasn’t likeable, and most of the Monday morning quarterbacks on my teevee seemed to agree. Obama can definitely recover in the next debate – he didn’t have any kind of a major falter. And on the plus side, I’ve had the feeling that up until now, Obama reallly didn’t dislike the man — not the way he did Hillary Clinton anyway. But behind Obama’s superbly controlled mien tonight you could see that McCain’s patronizing tone and open distortions were really pissing him off.
The anger seemed to focus Obama. His "ums" and "uhs" stopped and he delivered his points with more conviction. Even if he doesn’t give it full expression, being a little hot under the collar suits him.
The idea that you can run against a Republican for national office and remain above the fray was a nice one, but it isn’t realistic. Obama needs to stop agreeing with McCain and reinforcing his message. It doesn’t make him look statesmanlike, it makes McCain look right.
McCain really has nowhere to go except to get more obdurate and bellicose. If Obama can get his footing in the next debate and decide on a tactic for getting under McCain’s skin, the cranky old hothead won’t be hard to pwn.





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Obama missed several opportunities to hammer McCain — I too was waiting for a “Keating Five” kick in the shins — and he never really landed anything except when he turned to McCain and said “you were wrong” on Iraq. Watching this debate was like watching 5-year-olds play soccer, what they call “bumble-bee leagues” because everyone is gathered around the ball but nobody can make it go anywhere with any purpose and if an actual goal is scored it’s almost by accident. McCain was reality-challenged all night long, but he stuck with “what Senator Obama doesn’t seem to understand” and it worked because Obama let it, never came back and said, “No, John, it’s clear that YOU don’t understand.” Disappointing.
And here’s something about Iraq I wish someone would bring up: draw the obvious comparison with Qaddafi (or however we’re spelling his name this week) and Libya. Qaddafi was (is) a bad man by our standards, no doubt, and hmmmm wasn’t there a terrorist connection (Pan Am 103, Lockerbie?). So did we invade Libya? No? OK, we dropped bombs on the guy’s house. One of his houses, at least. Isolated and contained Libya diplomatically, with help from allies. And we WERE doing much the same with Saddam and Iraq, until dipshit junior frat-boy and his neo-con strin-pullers decided we had to go and “finish the job” that Bush 41 left undone. Someone should bring that up: what we did with Libya worked. And it was working with Iraq. And it might not be a bad strategy to follow in Iran … certainly much preferred to invading.
Digg
McWorse is such a complete parody of himself; he’s a caricature of a grumpy old fart, almost Dr. Strangelove in he’s being eaten alive by his repressions.
Who can do this on SNL?
Thanks Jane.
What I didn’t like was Mc$hame acting as though Obama wasn’t even in the room.
For all those folks that were upset in the live blogging about O’ not hitting back hard enough.
I think we might be wise to consider the Branch Rickey Factor”.
Especially on opening day.
OK?
.
Chris MAtthews: So why didn’t McCain look at his opponent and recognize with some dignity his opponent?
I think McCain was able to hold his own during the debate because Obama missed opportunities, like his failure to point out that an Iraq withdrawl time-table has been pushed by our Iraqi hosts.
I think Obama wins the post-debate spin because of McCain’s fast and loose relationship to the facts.
His mischaracterizing Pakistan as a “failed state” was glaring, as was his mis-representation of Kissinger’s willingness to talk to enemies without pre-conditions.
Although Obama mentioned the fact that Achmenijad isn’t the top leader in Iran, he should have drilled this fact again in rebuttal to McCain’s emotional denunciation of the Iranian President.
As for the economic segment — that big $300billion dollar tax cut to Richie Rich hung over McCain like a black cloud.
the chattering class are all calling a draw – ergo, a loss for McGimmick
did anyone watch on the CNN thingy ? we caught on to it late – it was like crack, we could not take our eyes off those lines – lol
Does anybody have a good insight into what gets under McCain’s skin? Something that he’s allergic to, but won’t make him sympathetic to voters?
Honey I’m home from the debate watching party…. in Tempe AZ…. There was a couple of hundred people watching…… It was so much FUN…..
I like what matthews is saying. Hope O’s people are listening. Focus on dem strong points (high unemployment, people losing their pension, etc.)
Visually, the debate was a disaster for McCain. If you turn the sound down and watch him, he is extremely unlikable, maybe threatening. I agree he did well on talking points, but so did Obama. It is clear his agenda was to be presidential. He did that.
I doubt he would have brought up the Keating Five if it was tossed to him.
Oh wow. How was it? I want to go to one for the VP debate
My feeling was McCain came across as an schoolyard bully who, much like his running mate, has no use for anyone without the same ideas as himself. He likes to fight and doesn’t have the presidential ability to connect with others and hear what they are saying.
Also, that Maverick crap just pisses me off—its like he constantly has to pat himself on the back because nobody else will do it for him.
Clearly, the most important thing I learned tonite is that I don’t believe he wouldn’t look Obama in the eye because he doesn’t like him–I think he may be a big fat closet racist. But that’s just my opinion.
I thought McCain sounded like he was about to cry in the beginning of the debate his voice was tight, whinny and kind of sad sounding.
Tweets is totally against McCain on wanting more war.
McQueeg definitely lived up to the nickname when he started going way too deeply into the not-leaving-Iraq-without-victory territory. He looked and sounded nuts, frankly. (I respect his personal experience but that is a wholly separate question as to whether he’d be a good President.)
McCain might not have been Miss Congeniality but former members of the North Vietnamese Army still contend that he clinched the swimsuit competition.
Oh goodness, yes. Now I’m watching it. The thing shot up across the board when Obama mentioned the golden parachute for the wall street fat cats.
McCain dropped when he did his little dedication to Ted Kennedy.
I never realized before how much McCain’s head looked exactly like a potato. Once I saw it, I couldn’t think of anything else.
This is right on, Jane.
Apparently, though, O polled well after the debate. Let’s see what sort of reality the MSM creates now.
Hmmm-that may be exactly the strategy – or is it a tactic? *g*
Sigh. Here’s Tweety essentially getting that response from Eugene Robinson, to Tweety’s totally stupid railing that Obama “never once” talked about the working class, or (oh, dear f’in lord)that Obama was so “un-ethnic.” Where does Matthews come up w/ such crap?
I disagree with you on Obama not having a “line”. I don’t think it was an intentional one, though–”That’s not true.” And I think that’s going to stick. Every time McCain said something, and Obama said “That’s not true”, we’re going to end up having a fact check. The media doesn’t really believe anything McCain says anymore, and Obama is now politely calling bullshit, so they’re going to check everything he says. And I’m guessing that Obama is going to be the overall winner on that front.
As for “naive” and “inexperienced”, I don’t think those are going to stick, either. He sure as hell didn’t SOUND naive and inexperienced, and he was the only one on the stage who talked about capturing or killing Osama bin what’s-his-name.
Didn’t realize how old that Putin/KGB line is. McCain’s been saying it forever.
At least since 2007.
Is he living in his own Private Idaho?
We’re doing it again for the VP debate …… all the progressive groups together….. DFA, Drinking Liberally, Women in Black, Young D’s together…. we pretty much took over the restaurant and they ran out of chairs…..
Jane, a very reasoned analysis.
Maybe I’ll have one next week. Spent all of tonight live-blogging it at the beach house.
He looks like a latex sculpture.
(((Alicia)))
Is the book done?
I posted this on Julia’s thread I think it fits.
54
I know..un-ethnic? what is that? I think that Robinson had a good response for that ton of stupidness
What is the topic of the next prez debate?
Did you all have a blast? what was the response of the people there?
LMAO!
Anyone for cake?
Longer than that. I am certain lots of people voting in this election don’t know what it stands for. Probably resonated with McCain supporters in Czechoslovakia, though.
Tweety wondering why Obama didn’t bring up this, that, and the other.
At least he isn’t talking about Obama having been on defense all night….
Must be! I just got an ad for it my email!
McCain blinks allot for someone who believes in the Surge. Hardball just ran a clip.
That would be cool. You could get immediate reaction from the folks around you.
The thing that drove me nuts was hearing McCain whistle when he talked….. he needed more denture cream ….
LOL mr said if you actually baked all the yummies you posted, he wouldleave me and marry you
Did anyone else understand McCain’s point about Obama not admitting the surged had been successful?
I kept thinking, “Um, he just said it was successful. And YOU just said that he said it was successful.”
707!
BO definitely decided to let many of the attacks roll off of him, but on the other hand there were so many of them that if he hadn’t, he would have spent the whole time reacting rather than making the statements he wanted to make. I’m not at all sure he made the wrong call there.
Yes, wobbly, Love Robinson for his down-to-earth common sense.
As for “un-ethnic”..well, we know what it’s a euphemism for. The current version of “is Barack black enough.”
McSFB used Churchill’s famous “…end of the beginning” line without giving him credit for it.
Kind of like McCain’s Russian soul-mate, Nikita Khrushchev?
Oh wow, I just read this up at mudflats, according to Ed Schultz:
Obama did have a response to McCain’s condescension. He simply said “John McCain is right about this issue.” Zing!
I don’t know what’s up
maybe because I expected more from obama and less from mccain I thought mccain won this handily
however on the teevee and in the immediate polls they say obama won
that’s good news to me and maybe since I thought I would get more out of obama I thought he lost but right now the polls are saying he won
however, maybe the polls are reflecting this nations inner desire to be rid of the republicans and they were watching the debate through their own personal glasses
I don’t know but I sure am glad my opinion about who won and who lost is wrong
I hope obama doesn’t take these positive polls to mean he doesn’t have to work on his debating style
he has to be ready with quick answers to attacks like “unprepared” and “naive”, he has to come back with;
“are YOU kidding me? you think I’M naive?…let me show you who’s naive;”
and then barage him with facts
but I am pleasantly surprised the polls show he did well
McC really should not have pissed off the NYT. They are getting back big time.
Suppose Obama had to tread lightly not to step on the delicate sensibilities of the typical American cracker.
or a ‘real american’
Blinks when he’s lying, in other words, all the time.
Wonder if McCain remembers the wobblies?
I’m amazed that the secret prisons, extraditions, torture, Blackwater, and domestic spying were not thoroughly discussed. Those are big pieces of our foreign policy.
McCain controlled the debate tonight.
At one key point it was Obama who literally controlled the debate: they were going at each other over nuclear waste disposal policy and McCain flared out over some obscure bill in the 90’s while Lehrer was trying to get to the next topic. iirc, Obama smiled and interrupted McCain to say to Lehrer, “Go ahead, next question.”
It was an adult move.
McCain takes fighting PERSONALY typical bully
and how do you know that i don’t?
having a baking party with third graders on Sunday. will photograph.
well the man is a pathological liar. I guess you can add pathological plagarizer
You know, at the end of the evening, I think you’re exactly right. While we were in the middle of it all, it felt pretty bad, but at the end of the night… Obama clearly has class and self-restraint.
The self-restraint bodes well for voters tired of “deciders” and cowboys.
ok pups…MSnbc has Barack winning something like 77% to McShame at 18%..
I know it is early..but looks good….CNN is Barack 68% to McShame 28%
My opinion is the Barack held his own and looked presidental, knowledgeable,
confident and very calm. McShame on the other had kept up with his old
stories, even managed to get in the POW tale at the end. It will be
interesting to see how the polls are tomorrow…hope these above figures
hold…it will give us all a little more confidence in winning.
Can’t wait til next Thursday to see the Artic Princess tell her tales!!
Moesie
Bwahahahaha!
No debate postponement! Bring on Palin v Biden!
Time to stock up on popcorn!
I like your take. I would not have picked up on that without having it pointed out to me.
A clueless Republican? More like souless.
You survived your drinking game?
LOL Mr said it, not me.
Well, you knew that video was coming. Didn’t think we would see it until tomorrow.
Yep obvious poker tell.
It was an interesting reaction in our room when McCain started going all historical…… rolled eyes…. lots of lost people……references that meant nothing…… and comments like….. “what does that have to do with today?”
America wouldn’t be in the shape it’s in today if there were more Wobblies around.
McC really should not have pissed off the NYT. They are getting back big time.
Who could have predicted? *g*
Didn’t he also diss Politico this week?
Attaboy, Johnny – keep up the good work.
something tells me that ’something’ will come up preventing Palin from debating.
Those of us on the outside have been saying she’s clueless since day one. Methinks the McSFB staff is a little slow on the uptake.
Ha! Thanks for putting my, or your?, finger on it.
Green screen or no, I saw cottage cheese.
What happened when he made the veiled POW reference. Mr wobbs downed his beer (drinking game)
Again, I disagree here. Every time McCain said “naive” or “don’t understand”, Obama responded with a clear command of the facts. This isn’t going to stick.
hehe
Dick.
Given his knowledge of history, prolly not. He would’ve been agin’ ‘em, I’m sure.
Oh, that was too serious an answer, I know. But even McC probably isn’t quite old enough to remember when they were famour, or notorious.
Somebody call for a Wobbly?
YES. I loved that moment. Very adult. That’s the thing I keep emphasizing to my friends. “This is an adult man. An eminently mature man.” I’m so sick of these snotty old frat boys.
And I really hate Hate HATE bullies with a hot, hating passion.
Obama should have said, “John, don’t be insulting, I’m not your wife.”
Any bets on Palin stepping down before the debate?
Howdy Mr Wobbs!
I think it was the tone and body language
‘Strate(r)gy or tactic’?……Doesn’t matter because, based on the early returns from the post-debate polling, I’d say the Branch Rickey Factor” is looking more and more like it is contributing to a surge in O’s popularity with the fans…..errrrr….voters…. in the swingseats.
.
Mr wobbs: cheers
she is prolly hopeless
Laryngitis? That way, they could have her just stand there and smile while Biden debates himself. Given Biden’s penchant for putting his foot in his mouth, I’m really not sure who’d win that debate.
And we will be so surprised we that happens.
I was a bit dismayed by Obama’s responses until I realized that I’m an Informed Citizen. Then I had to consider how most of Amerika was viewing this. If they were. Sometimes I wanted Obama to hit McCain on the obvious bullshit, but actually, not many people understand what’s going on.
My hope is that Obama is playing the long game and that can’t be done by assuming anyone watching really understands what the fuck is going on. After all, there’s a media blackout in progress.
I was heartened to hear David Brooks giving kudos to Obama on his readiness to be commander in chief. Floored would be a better description!
Act 1.
It is too bad that Obama had to say that McShame was right so many times and as predicted, the McCain campaign seized upon it. Disappointing to hear Obama favoring the Missile Defense Program(SDI), mentioning Iranian missiles.
I can hardly wait. Maybe it will be a little like “Godzilla vs.
BimboBambi”.She’ll call in and say the rabbit died and she’s too overwhelmed with joy to participate.
We were playing Debate Bingo with phases such as POW, Across the isle, elitist…… didn’t get a bingo but had a lot of boxes X’ed out….. when McCain talked about being against Torture everyone in the room boo’ed…
Will that repug STFU?
No! I don’t care what crisis
comes upis cooked up — if Old Man McCain can get to the debate, then young miss can do it, too.no,i am glad he didn’t say that
hahahhahhhahhahhahahaha
He’ll be fine. He will just answer the questions and she can stand there like a cardboard cut out and grin. I’m sure she’ll get 19% of folks who say she won the debate
Oh, BO’ll be at least as big a disappointment as Bill C., I have no doubt. But he’s all we have.
You can’t be THAT old, can you? Didn’t they disappear by the ’20’s.
Critics of Obama said many of the same things about Obama during the primary debates. Obama took down the DLC with his approach.
Sure, Obama’s approach right now might not have worked in 2000 or 2004, but we’re here now. He’s brilliant in his ability to understand where the electorate is at this point in time.
The pundit and poll response to tonight indicates that Obama knows what he’s doing, at least on a national scale and the more aggressive approaches might work well in local races. Yes, seems counter my own desires in terms of attacking, but I cannot argue with Obama’s results so far. I want to win.
ROFL. WHat is she going to name this kid. Mr wobbs says ‘Match(stick)’
So am I, in reality. The high road got him this far.
McC said he was in “prison” – thought that was odd. As uninformed as some voters are they probably think he did time.
I am just catching up as a friend stopped by and I only heard the first 20 miutes or so. The agreeing with McCain was pissing me off. I am glad to read that Obama was getting steamed later but he has got to know that McCain will lie, cheat, and steal to win.
he might surprise you
Who is that dude?
Time to stock up on popcorn!
Do NOT get Orville Redenbacher’s “Sweet’n Buttery”, my choice for the evening.
It sucks.
I loved that animation.
can someone tell my why I never saw obama tower over mccain?
it’s as if they deliberately fixed the camera angles so mccain didn’t look like the dwarf he is next to obama
Not a wobblybits?
707
Yeah, released from prison.
Who on TeamMcCain thought that was a good idea?
never got into popcorn. always smelled like stinky feet to me
nah! they wouldn’t do that!
I would so very much love to be surprised, believe me!
We can only hope!
should have automatically won. BINGO!!
Palin will announce, with a gun held to her head, prior to the debate that she is removing herself from the ticket for personal reasons. McCain will name Romney as his running mate. It will piss off the theocrats and flat earthers but the fiscal conservatives will be re-energized. WoooHooo, more deregulation.
ratfood at 55:
Very telling. Don’t underestimate the subliminal message people take away from body language such as this. May help explain the polling going on, in Obama’s favor.
i have a sinking suspicion,that makes him REALLY hate him
I suppose it isn’t a crime to be short and old–I’m both, or hope to be one day.
But I was puzzling over the same thing. Are they really actually not that different in height??
Hey, WTF was the deal about the heights of North Korean vs. South Korean people, anyway? That was just bizarre.
So what kind of words should we use for the VP debate for the Bingo game…. starting with ….. Bridge to Nowhere…..
McShorty was standing on a (soap) box.
I wrote a note to Obama at MyObama… and congratulated him and then asked that he stop agreeing with McBush, drop the constant usage of ‘we’, and, start using ‘I”…
My guess woud be JC. At her age it would truly be a “miracle”.
I’m fading. Good night friends!
Not firepups, eh? Silo_____s?
SCOOP: A video has been leaked from Sarah Ailin’s debate preps. Appears she’s got a secret weapon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSdFIDygFwM
He has talked so much about being a POW I just found it odd that he would put it that way. Who knew?
always smelled like stinky feet to me
umm – thanks. That helps.
lol.
They started their great decline in the 20’s but are still active and I’m a card carryin’, dues payin’ Wobbly and damn proud of it. *g*
nutrition
That’s funny, jayt – I bought some awhile ago, and ended up throwing it out. disappointing – I expect better from OR – after all, that’s Hoosier popcorn!
That is brilliant
guys and gals
fungible
russia
putin
in what respect?
Painfree blissful sleep, TB…
damn i hope you are wrong!
g’nite
He didn’t really look at him before the debate when they shook hands, either.
mr wobbs: Cheesus Palin (JC would be too sacrilege)
Organic popping corn’s the only way to go. Screw all that processed shit.
Recover? Hell, he won this thing hands down. His tone was near perfect.
It’s a silly thing, but actually I’ve been thinking that if everyone could see that, it’d sink the R turnout.
boa noite Tex
Mr wobbs: sleep well sugar princess
McCain will name Romney as his running mate.
It’s possible. Olbermann mentioned the naming of a new running mate as a possible new method of McCain distraction from the real issues….
Hi, Betsy! I wondered about that, too – whenever there was a split screen McCain’s head was slightly higher. How does that happen if it isn’t deliberate? And I had it on C-Span, supposedly neutral (not).
nite sweety
ROFLMAO
If you want to go for shit faced drunk…may I suggest “exceptional”?
So… if BO is tall… and JM is short… then BO’s had better nutrition than JM?
GAHHH!!! My eyes!!!
I hadn’t noticed that
LMAO MAtthews: your candidate is so ethereal
It depends on the set director…. they may have had McCain stand on a box to make him look the same height as Obama behind the podium…. which is really really wrong…… Never in the history of Presidents has a President been short….. not sure what the shortest height but I think it is just under 6ft…..
Really? I didn’t realize they- you- still existed as an entity. Good for you!
jayt, you’re gonna love/hate me for this, it’s gonna make you want to eat even more popcorn but it’s gonna be healthier for you
instead of butter I use olive oil!
YUMMMMM
That’s funny, jayt – I bought some awhile ago, and ended up throwing it out. disappointing – I expect better from OR – after all, that’s Hoosier popcorn!
I’m thinking that’s the only way to deal with that junk.
Hey – we do sweet-corn *real* well.
SD @ 145 – can I find some that’s microwaveable?
It’s all about nutrition. The North Koreans are growth stunted due to the decades of inadequate nutrition.
McCheese’s hero was 5′8″
I have a foot fetish, so don’t get me started on even more popcorn now
how short is McCain?
I just googled 5′7? that can’t be right. LOL I tower over him
Topped with real butter and lots o’ parmesan.
Night, Betsy – yep – it’s here!
LMAO ewwwww really? a foot fetish
Oh, no, doncha know? He shrank several inches while he was….(drum roll) a POW?
When the debate started, it showed them both from behind approaching their places. I remarked to myself they looked the same height… lessee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H…..candidates
5′6″ for McCain, and 6′1″+ for Obama. How DID they do that??
Oh this ad is great! They simply do not understand.
Hopefully they’ll make a huge ad buy with this ad. The old tricks do not work anymore except on a certain percentage of the population, and most of those people would be voting for McInsane anyway.
It’ll backfire tremendously. I have no doubt when they got back to their rooms tonight that Team McInsane was giving a lot of hi-fives and feeling good. Then, as they see the pundit and poll reaction, they’re probably going WTF?!?
We’ve entered a new era in politics. Obama understands this amazingly well, and hopefully Repubes will stick to the same shit that’s worked for them in the past. It’ll be a landslide then, and it perhaps already will be. Exciting times. Let’s get focused on Blue America races!
Okay, how about JP?
I know several Jesus. thought it’s pronounced Heyzeus. Oh wait, that’s furrin….nevermind.
Oh BTW…. talked to Elmore about McCain having $5000 make up jobs and even in TeeVee and Hollywood that is really spendy for a single job…..I asked if that could include prosthetics/Latex things such as what is found in the FX movie…… and he said …..that would then make sense….
Madison was 5′4″
Good! This is fight and he had better start swinging.
could be worse.
Wait till you see the Joe Biden-in-a-Speedo tapes….
yup he wears elevator shoes too
someone said McCain was standing on a box or elevated lift. When they shook hands, you could see the height difference
I’m really looking forward to the Biden/Palin debate. My prediction? Going up against Biden, she’ll palin comparison.
What … an indictment ? *g*
I don’t know what makes people vote in those polls like they do.
But my teen son saw some of the debate and said McCain seemed really irritable, irritating, assholey and unlikeable. So maybe not landing every (proverbial)punch isn’t as critical as we think.
But I want him to hit (metaphorically) harder and faster and way more accurately next debate.
The magic of teevee.
Gah, what’s this hideous weird CGI virtual Federalist set on MSNBC? With integrated infographics yet? My bleeding eyeballs!
Ad? What ad? You seeing it on tv right now?
FWIW, a look at the difference between strategy and tactics, as they relate to the Surge in Iraq:
A Surge of Misunderstanding
hehehe yup only murikan names hence the suggestion of ‘matchstick’
Brilliant comparison
It also shows Obama really won the foreign policy debate by his composure. McCain would fail in every negotiation with a condescending patronizing attitude.
(((
WMDWDD ))) *g*McCain’s side could be elevated and Obama’s side of the stage a different height….. Did anyone see the floor? I didn’t see it but then when you are in a room full of people you can miss things…..
we wish. she’ll need to spend some time with her family
Oh, yeah. That helps alot!
Industrial Workers of the World
mr said the same thing…well he said McCain was a ‘wanker’
Tweety: “Do you think JM was too trolllike tonight?” Wow.
Petro!
Are you fucking with me?
so all of you with the popcorn, next time add olive oil instead of butter…k?
Don’t know. I’ve never looked for it. In the kitchen I’m pure Ludite.
oh, we haven’t mentioned it here to my knowledge but it’s all over the other blogs
obama had on a flag pin
mccain
not so much
wobbly, if you don’t mind, you’re husband and I are going to the kitchen for another shot.
LOL … ya got me … I blame the Wine …
Okay, that actually got me to switch over to Tweety.
Is that whilst cooking or as a topping?
still watching MSNBC. And they’re still trying to figure out who won.
After what *I* saw tonight, I’m real happy with that. If tonight’s performance ends up being called a draw – I’m thrilled.
Heh.
No shit?
After some more reflection, McCain’s grumpy certitude and presumptuousness reminded me an awful lot of George W. Bush.
-G
topping…never tried it popping too, will give that a go next time
Tweety said that ?
OMFG … queue The End of the Affair …
Well, well.
See, that’s what you get for drinking wine.
Me? I blame the boilermakers.
Or whatever you call ‘em…
who?
check out think progress and see and elle, they have the pics
People who are in dire straights because of the economy know it. They live it every day, they don’t need to be reminded of it. What they need to know is who is going to help them out.
Focsuing on tax cuts for the rich and ear marks means little to these people and Obama flat out told 95% of the people listening they were getting a tax cut.
So if I’m facing another month of bills, which I can barley cover and I hear a guy telling me I’m going to get my taxes cut, and not get my health benefits taxed if I have them, and then I hear about earmarks and business taxes being too high, I have to say I’m going with the guy who told me he going to cut my taxes, and not tax my health care benefits.
It’s the YouTube video up above in the post. McInsane made an ad already editing together all the time Obama said “I agree with John…”
This is great because as the polls are showing tonight, people are tired of the juvenile shit. I hope they run this ad nationally. It should finish off McInsane if they do.
Ron have you read any of my ‘Surge’ posts? Here’s my latest one…!
I really, really want to see Palin go the distance. It wouldn’t be fair to switch out VP candidates just when she’s starting to look so good. We’re entitled to the whole Sarah Palin experience.
Hank Paulson’s gopher.
-G
Prolly not a good idea, burning point too low.
Ummm–I think you won the drinking game. suchlanguage from you!
ROFL He says he’s been waiting for you. Has the bottle ready and everything
OK, I listened to the debate the first time, while reading this. Now, I’m WATCHING, and I can see it. AMAZING how McCain did not ever look at Obama whil Obama was looking directly at him. It came off really bad. I get why polls look good for Obama.
Or whatever you call ‘em…
breakfast? *g*
no shit
… and some ’subliminal’ words a la Frank
YutzLuntz ?see and elle. that’s code, right?
That flies in the face of the oft stated McCain argument that Obama can’t work and never agrees with Republicans.
-G
Thank you! I go watch it now.
good point
I’m still waiting for that next F-Thread.
Hey Petro! How’s things, bro?
Frank Putz.
You did hear that I loudly berated Luntz on a sidewalk in NH to the cheers of a pack of Paulites?
-G
crooks and liars
I prefer Single Malt or Belgian Beer but my company is a connoisseur of food and insists on wine …
some repub tried to talk about how O agreed with McCain (it does grate the nerves that O keeps saying McCain is right but it takes all types to rock the world)
Nice work, dude.
((((( Alicia )))))
The Leaves are changing. The Leafs … not so much … *g*
Amen. I hope he stresses that again and again.
Can Grampaw McDirt-Nap get away with saying Obama has the ‘most liberal voting record in the Senate’? Obama has many fine attributes, but ‘liberal’ is not one of them.
I’m trying to catch up on your posts cuz I was without a machine for almost two weeks. Motherboard died. Extreme pain in the ass.
I’m still hunting for an agent … did you get “The Package” as yet ?
I didn’t even catch that. What a half-assed citizen I am!
Well dayam, he shoulda spoke up!
Mr. Wobbs… *CLINK*!
P.S. Sobieski is poorman’s Stoli
ohhhh if McCain didn’t acknowledge Obama, would not look at him…. that is REALLY racist……
unfortunately true (but we can push him to the left)
No … wish I was there though …
Mr wobbs: we have some scary ass polish vodka but cheers!!
Yes, dear. I have my secret decoder ring on.
yeah but he didn’t make the connecton explicit which means at least half the audience and more than half of rethugs watching didn’t get it. for them it was just an obscure anti short people comment.
You could write a book about it.;) Congrats by the way on your book!
Yes, olive oil with a sprinkle of garlic salt. Or olive oil lightly heated with a splash of honey if you’re in the mood for sweet.
By any chance is it on YouTube ?
Do you mean DeBroder ring?
-G
Having a single malt as we speak.
Did you send one?
McDirt-Nap?!?!?!?
Alicia!!1!eleven!1!!
… after the third shot, no one can tell the difference …
Are you sure it’s racist? I’ve dated a serial liar, eye contact is fleeting and replaced with touching when things aren’t going well.
strategy is your overall goal, tactics are used to achieve that goal
in chess, one strategy could be to controll the center, the oponents strategy could be to control a wing
then tactics are used to accomplish that particular goal
on economy;
my strategy for economic growth will be to enlarge the middle class, the tactics will be to make small business loans easy to get
the concervatives strategy will be to grow the upper class, the tactics used will be to reduce regulations
there
LOL … the last time we ’spoke’, you were waiting for a package from your Publisher …
Hah!
Probably not.
It was painful to watch Obama talking, the back of Obama’s head as he addresses McDisdain directly, yet respectfully, as McCain ignores him.
That would be wonderful. I hope we can.
I really Digg Jane!
I’m listening to a clip now, I’ll see if I’m in it.
-G
Just got back after a debate party. Pissed off listening to the news.
that is just disturbing
That sucks big time! I can empathize, I had a power supply issue just awhile ago…!
That was exactly my point. The Surge was a tactic, not a strategy.
But painful in the good way. As in, others stomachs were turned the same way mine was.
No. Really. It’s not so shabby.
Well, you are among friends
Oh yeah! It is here!!!! Big heavy box full. I’m so excited. Got my first review today from David Swanson.
As a dem I agree with jane’s analysis. for indies and noncoms though, I think this was about as clear an obama win as possible. they were looking, I believe, at style and message over substance, and they wanted to see an ingratiating, polite, nonconfrontational, informed, compromising Obama (exactly what I did not want to see), and they got it. he earned quite a few votes from these undecideds tonight, I wager.
John McCain is a liar.
Ahem, I assume you’re still waiting too, eh?
Belgian Beer? What are you, some kind of liberal elitist? I’m loading up on Orval (if I can find it) and Hoegaarden for the VP debate.
late late nite at the mothership
Girl, don’t listen to the news! Talk with us.
I’m late but did anyone catch the ‘admits we have been torturing people’ thing that McCain said?
short, succinct, and true *g*
Hey WDD! I just hope he doesn’t plan on going snowmobiling with the First Dude…
Excellent ! Where can I read the review ?
definately a tactic not a strategy, the strategy was to stabalize Iraq, they used the
surgeescalation as their tactic“My friends, I am too old, too stubborn, and just too doggoned mean to be elected president of the United States. Senator Obama obviously doesn’t understand those facts.”
John McCain
((( CT ))) … persistence beats talent, and I’m not known for being talented … *g*
Is that Rachel Maddow ? *g*
In order to have a viable middle class we must first have a viable working class. With the continued outsourcing of jobs depressing wages of what non-retail, non-farming jobs are out there it’s going to be hard to enlarge the middle class without first rebuilding our industrial capabilities. We also need to break up the big ag holdings and make family farming more attractive and financially viable, but that’s a whole other ball of wax.
Youtube is full of good shit.
That’s why it’s difficult to have a real debate – it’s very hard to get points across when you’re constantly having to challenge lies.
Oh hell, I’ve been out of touch. Is that like going quail hunting with Cheney?
Yeah, but now I got a most motherfucker.
At Hooterville – click on the first link on the top-most post.
Even better!
Oh, yeah, said it plain as day.
so therefore, one of my tactics will also be regulating fair trade instead of free trade
no foreign goods sold here if they don’t allow for good wage, health insurance, higher education for their labor force
that would be one of my tactics among many to achieve the stragegy of building the middle class
a strategy can become a tactic however in a greater scheme
the strategy of building the middle class would become a tactic in the strategy of rebuilding our national security
((SD))how are the tigers?
Eye contact…pisses McCain off that Obama dare be equal to his torured soul.
Did & read it … where do I get my “personally autographed” copy … who will market it up here ?
Jingle. Jingle.
Coming in late to the lake, after dog-walking.
I kept hoping for a little push-back from Obama – something like “I know how to work with people across the aisle. As you see, I know how to agree with opponents when they are right. Where were you on points where we agree? Can’t you publicly agree with opponents when you have made the same points yourself?”
Almost impossible to enforce.
I think it would be more effective to put a tariff on goods manufactured outside the US for US firms. As an example, Converse transferred its manufacturing first to Taiwan then to Vietnam. Chuck Taylor High Tops sell for almost double at some outlets, notably Foot Locker, what they did when they were made here a few years ago. Obviously not a simple issue but something must be done to bring manufacturing back to the US, global economy be damned.
Tigers are fine. It’s cooled down considerably and they’re lovin’ it. Racin’ around here drivin’ me crazy. Thanks for asking.
My lone fuzznuts is loving the cooldown in the weather, and is doing the same!
Way past my bedtime.
Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.
Namaste
it’s simple to enforce, we’ve always done it till recently, it’s done through tariff, if a country doesn’t provide these basic necessities for their labor force we apply a tariff for the product that brings the cost commensurate with what it would cost if they paid their bills
very easy to enforce
You’re way too hard on Obama, JH. He was quite cogent and focussed and acted quite the statesman (which means being polite for one thing and conciliatory) and actually responded directly to questions asked. McCain responded poorly to these qualities, to be sure, but people can see clearly by this behavior that he’s not a statesman.
Obama as statesman is not going to be spending much time on attacking his opponent, especially on these occasions. That’s not generally what his campaign aims have been about. Certainly, on these occasions you shouldn’t expect hammers and tongs to be required to score points against McCain. He didn’t need them, clearly. He blew the mother away without barely lifting a finger. In fact, all he had to do was let McCain drone on on on about Reagan and war spending and Vietnam and his work would be pretty much done for the evening.
He needed a smoother come-back than that.
I’m glad you brought that up. What I understand is that we should never have been in Iraq and we need to keep focusing on Al Qaeda.”
Aikido shifting from their oncoming force and using it to turn them away from you and headlong into a wall.
I’m glad you brought up my lack of experience as a Washington insider. I see the world as it is now and not as it was in 1964 and not through the eye of George W. Bush. I hope to improve America and not ruin it.
I’m glad you brought up my spending programs. I hope to use these investments to make our use of energy more efficient, so we can spend less on fuel and send less of our money overseas.
and so on
Don’t go there. There’s no evidence of that. It’s more likely a habit he formed as a POW when he couldn’t face his captors for 5 1/2 years. Do you want to open that cage by suggesting he’s racist? I think not.
If McCain wants to behave that way then that’s his choice. No problem.
Does McCain realize Putin is no longer President of Russia? He’s still powerful, but Medvedev is President now. Think of them as somewhat sharing power the way our President shares with Reid and Pelosi (or should anyway).
a tactic is specific, like blowing up something
a strategy is more abstract and general, like destroying bridges to limit enemy troop transportation, so we can pin ‘em down & destroy them
strategies are implemented by a long string of tactics and maneuvers
Strategy: Obama seeks to destroy McCain in the eyes of the electorate
Tactics: let McCain talk and expose his own unsuitability, talk about Sarah Palin as a bad veep pick, talk about getting out of Iraq contrasting with McCain’s “stay 100 years”, talk about Afghan. & Al Qaeda and how McCain is neglecting it, talk about McCain’s age and record of mistakes or lack of success, etc.
Do you remember when Hillary stunned the Dem convention by asking for a vote of acclamation to make Obama the “one”? Same thing.
In this race it isn’t so horrible to let McCain flail away. He shows himself and people are sometimes scared by that. Obama should just remain cool and let McCain blow up.
OMG, that’s soooo cold. He’d never do that of course. Anyway, I suspect, with McCain’s temperment, that he’d just smile and let Obama appear to be the mean one.
Yes, but he was a towering giant compared to most who followed.
Wait, you weren’t talking about Dolly Madison, were you?
It’s really not worth getting into. It gets complicated when you have multiple layers. The strategy is to achieve peace, so the tactic is to destroy Al Qaeda. But, the strategy is to get rid of Al Qaeda, so the tactic is to round ‘em up, flush ‘em out, chase ‘em into caves, and crush them. But, the strategy is to round ‘em up and the tactics are to find them, entice or chase them somewhere, bring forces to bear and destroy them.
It’s complicated.
You’re better off wrasslin’ a Russian bear.
But, they claim ’stabilizing Iraq’ is only a tactic in the larger strategy of removing safe havens or points of strength from Al Qaeda (who supposedly wanted to take over Iraq), so we can minimize AQ.
But, wouldn’t it be simpler to find them and kill them, rather than conquering the rest of the Earth to remove any “hills” they *might* want to take?
Bush is a weenie.
Yeah, he really dislikes McCain, so much so that he ended the evening with a hearty, “Good job, John” and a strong handshake.
Obama should have brought up the lobbyists who are running McCain’s campaign, his Keating ties, his intentions to start another war, his recklessness in choosing a clearly unqualified person as his running mate.
Maybe Obama should listen to Tina Fey’s Palin and realize he needs to “…want it more.”
I want someone gutsy enough to look someone in the eyes and impale them on their own words to succeed the criminal currently in the WH and Obama didn’t show me anything.
Obama has to maintain a “Jackie Robinson” demeanor. That is extremely important. And he is doing it superbly. Wow. Nothing less than heroic.
You write: “he (Obama) never really grazed the old buzzard.”
Really.
Obama nailed McCain repeatedly as wrong on Iraq.
On more than one occasion, he mentioned the $10 billion dollars a month that the war costs — a figure that becomes more and more important as bailout costs mount and McCain complains about a few billion a year in earmarks.
Obama countered McCain’s bracelet with one of his own. Very effective.
Obama nailed McCain for taking the focus off Afghanistan and letting bin Laden escape and thrive.
Obama effectively used Kissinger against McCain on Iran. He also got in the point that McCain doesn’t seem to know who the real leader of Iran is. McCain, on the other hand, started off that segment by sounding as if he is running for PM of Israel.
Obama was much stronger on the threat of loose nukes, which is the most frightening threat we face.
On the other hand, I guess if you are worried about the threat from Spain, you probably thought that McCain won.
“Even if he doesn’t give it full expression, being a little hot under the collar suits him.”
I agree — BUT you are sane. Believe it or not, way too many Americans will like Obama, IF he doesn’t act like an ANGRY BLACK MAN. And there are a lot of Americans who don’t consider themselves RACIST, but see blacks and whites in a different light. Blacks can’t get away with much of what white America can.
So — I think Obama NOT showing real anger is to his advantage. If only all Americans could see him as a PERSON rather than a BLACK MAN.
You write: “Obama needs to stop agreeing with McCain and reinforcing his message. It doesn’t make him look statesmanlike, it makes McCain look right.”
Really.
We hear a lot about bipartisanship. People in the middle, especially, seem to want that. More importantly, McCain claims to be the bipartisan maverick who can reach across party lines, put country first, etc., etc.
Obama showed what bipartisanship actually looks like. One cannot be bipartisan if one never says anything nice about the other side.
As for reinforcing McCain’s message, note that Obama’s technique is to acknowledge a point of agreement, then follow that up with a “but” — and then a often a shiv. Noting points of agreement makes it easier for people to accept, almost in sorrow for those on the fence, what comes after the “but.”
At one point, Obama noted that a willingness to sit down and negotiate with one’s enemies makes it easier to rally support for the use of force if that becomes necessary. Duh. After 8 years of George W. Bush, however, most Americans may have forgotten this basic point of international relations, of…well, of statesmanship.
Last night, therefore, we saw what bipartisanship and statesmanship — and leadership — actually look like. And you missed it. Somehow.
Thanks Jane.
His wife seems to get under his arthritic craw. He likes to bitch-slap her around and call her a c*nt.
He’s also probably touchy about being a collaborator with his N. Vietnamese captors during Vietnam.
It will work fine for Obama to point ot the areas of agreement between them…he just has to quit saying, “I agree with McCain.” He has to start saying, “This is another one of those points where McCain agrees with me.”