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	<title>Comments on: Yes, Mona, &#8220;Barack Obama:  Baby Killer&#8221; Is A Right Wing Fantasy</title>
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	<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/</link>
	<description>Politics for liberal newsgeeks</description>
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		<title>By: parto</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-9202</link>
		<dc:creator>parto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/#comment-9202</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jane&lt;br /&gt;
I saw on c-span and  you were great! It was a joy seeing you on the tube.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane<br />
I saw on c-span and  you were great! It was a joy seeing you on the tube.</p>
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		<title>By: jaydeebug</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-9152</link>
		<dc:creator>jaydeebug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/#comment-9152</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I suggest to all you nay-sayers that this never happens….please put the words “Botched Late Term Abortions” into Google.  I live in Wichita where the infamous Dr. George Tiller resides and kills babies.&lt;br /&gt;
Jane, if I had been an Obama fan, upon watching the C-Span talk show with you and Mona Cheren (I never heard of either of you before so I am certainly not playing favorites)I would have considered that you bordered on high pitched closemindedness and I would be reconsidering who I was voting for….&lt;br /&gt;
Why is it that you don’t want to face the truth?  Is it so important to pro-choice people that the babies aren’t real people that you block the possibility of botched abortions?  When it comes to medical procedures, there is botched everything!  Please do extensive research on the subject before you say to the nation that it is a Republican fantasy…&lt;br /&gt;
The other person (Mona Cheren) didn’t come off sounding hysterical like you did or having the contorted facial movements.  She seemed the voice of reason…and at least used partial facts to support her claim.  I see she responded to your original post on this with the exact data.  I see also that you have declared that particular nurse ‘crazy.’  What is the possibility that no one at the hospital would back her for fear of losing their job?  You don’t even allow for ‘possibilities’, you hurry to call it right-wing fantasy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suggest to all you nay-sayers that this never happens….please put the words “Botched Late Term Abortions” into Google.  I live in Wichita where the infamous Dr. George Tiller resides and kills babies.<br />
Jane, if I had been an Obama fan, upon watching the C-Span talk show with you and Mona Cheren (I never heard of either of you before so I am certainly not playing favorites)I would have considered that you bordered on high pitched closemindedness and I would be reconsidering who I was voting for….<br />
Why is it that you don’t want to face the truth?  Is it so important to pro-choice people that the babies aren’t real people that you block the possibility of botched abortions?  When it comes to medical procedures, there is botched everything!  Please do extensive research on the subject before you say to the nation that it is a Republican fantasy…<br />
The other person (Mona Cheren) didn’t come off sounding hysterical like you did or having the contorted facial movements.  She seemed the voice of reason…and at least used partial facts to support her claim.  I see she responded to your original post on this with the exact data.  I see also that you have declared that particular nurse ‘crazy.’  What is the possibility that no one at the hospital would back her for fear of losing their job?  You don’t even allow for ‘possibilities’, you hurry to call it right-wing fantasy.</p>
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		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-9151</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 07:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/#comment-9151</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jane,&lt;br /&gt;
I saw the replay of your CSPAN appearance today. Good to hear your voice for sanity!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bob in HI&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane,<br />
I saw the replay of your CSPAN appearance today. Good to hear your voice for sanity!</p>
<p>Bob in HI</p>
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		<title>By: FruitFly</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-9150</link>
		<dc:creator>FruitFly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 04:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/#comment-9150</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks Jane!!  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://fruitfly.wordpress.com/2008/09/14/dead-baby-delicacies-and-republican-nut-jobs-vs-jane-hamsher/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://fruitfly.wordpress.com/.....e-hamsher/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Be well!  …And keep punchin’ them in the nose!!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;XOXO&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;FF&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jane!!  </p>
<p><a href="http://fruitfly.wordpress.com/2008/09/14/dead-baby-delicacies-and-republican-nut-jobs-vs-jane-hamsher/" rel="nofollow">http://fruitfly.wordpress.com/&#8230;..e-hamsher/</a></p>
<p>Be well!  …And keep punchin’ them in the nose!!</p>
<p>XOXO</p>
<p>FF</p>
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		<title>By: darellbee</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-9145</link>
		<dc:creator>darellbee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 00:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/#comment-9145</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jane, I saw you on C-Span with that republican this morning, and the republican made me realize something. When the lady called in and compared the educational achievements of the candidates and the republican went into a tirade about the caller being an elite snob, it suddenly hit me. The reason that the educational system in this country is so bad is not because of the schools, it’s because the republicans have turned getting an education into something only elite snobs do. It was so clear!!!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane, I saw you on C-Span with that republican this morning, and the republican made me realize something. When the lady called in and compared the educational achievements of the candidates and the republican went into a tirade about the caller being an elite snob, it suddenly hit me. The reason that the educational system in this country is so bad is not because of the schools, it’s because the republicans have turned getting an education into something only elite snobs do. It was so clear!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Hamsher</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-9143</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Hamsher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 23:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/#comment-9143</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Except it’s not a “fact,” it’s a halucination, it never happened, some nut job just said it did.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s right-wing reality, i.e., a fantasy world they live in where they can just make shit up.  They investigated, nobody could back up her ridiculous claims.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Except it’s not a “fact,” it’s a halucination, it never happened, some nut job just said it did.</p>
<p>It’s right-wing reality, i.e., a fantasy world they live in where they can just make shit up.  They investigated, nobody could back up her ridiculous claims.</p>
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		<title>By: patachon</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-9142</link>
		<dc:creator>patachon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 22:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/#comment-9142</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wow, using a total crank like Stanek as a source.  That really builds confidence.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Stanek is a joke in the state of Illinois.  Read Archpundit &lt;a href=&quot;http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/08/20/the-problem-with-staneks-entire-argument/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/08/19/jill-stanek-follies/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;especially here&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, using a total crank like Stanek as a source.  That really builds confidence.</p>
<p>Stanek is a joke in the state of Illinois.  Read Archpundit <a href="http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/08/20/the-problem-with-staneks-entire-argument/" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/08/19/jill-stanek-follies/" rel="nofollow">especially here</a></p>
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		<title>By: Elliott</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-9140</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 22:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/#comment-9140</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Mona Charen, National Review, Syndicated Columnist &amp; Jane Hamsher, FireDogLake Blog, Founder, discuss women’s issues in the 2008 presidential campaign.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a&gt;watch segment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Mona Charen, National Review, Syndicated Columnist &amp; Jane Hamsher, FireDogLake Blog, Founder, discuss women’s issues in the 2008 presidential campaign.</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a>watch segment</a></p>
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		<title>By: v2martian</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-9137</link>
		<dc:creator>v2martian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/#comment-9137</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Mona left out the “dirty linen bin” in her original article….FACT?&lt;br /&gt;
“It happened recently”….FACT?&lt;br /&gt;
What were the “facts” of the mother’s circumstance, something a doctor would consider?&lt;br /&gt;
There must be some reason for this physician to have invented late term abortion.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;IT IS NOT against the laws of the United States government to have an abortion! Majority rules.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Testimony? Under oath and all? where does one find this FACT?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Not a pleasant subject to be reviewing, especially when the truth is so elusive.&lt;br /&gt;
What is one to believe with outlandish rhetoric from the one who investigated and wrote about the “recent” snafu ?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Let “Baby Hope rest in peace- her mother’s difficult decision, not ours, not yours.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Jewish World Review May 17, 1999 /2 Sivan, 5759&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Mona Charen&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Baby Hope&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(JWR) —- (http://www.jewishworldreview.com)&lt;br /&gt;
THE WOMAN WAS 22 WEEKS PREGNANT when she sought the assistance of Dr. Martin Haskell, the originator of the partial-birth abortion procedure, to rid herself of her already-kicking child.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Haskell performed the first stage of the partial-birth abortion. He inserted a seaweed-based substance into the woman’s cervix and instructed her to return the following day. In the usual course of events, the seaweed absorbs the amniotic fluid from the womb and expands, thus slowly dilating the cervix. The next day, new seaweed is inserted. On the third day, the abortionist opens the cervix with his fingers, feels around for the baby’s legs and pulls them out of the birth canal. He rotates the fetus’ shoulders so that the baby’s face is oriented toward the mother’s lower back and then, using scissors, he punctures the bottom of the baby’s skull and suctions the brain out through a tube.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But in this case, things did not go according to plan. The woman complained of severe abdominal pain on the first night and, being far from Haskell’s clinic, reported to the emergency room of her local hospital, Bethesda North, in Cincinnati. As she was being examined (she did not say she was pregnant), the baby was born — alive. Pediatricians and neonatologists came running. The baby girl weighed in at 1 pound. The doctors decided that the child was very unlikely to survive and instructed that nothing be done.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Connie Boyles, a nurse, and Shelly Lowe, a medical technician, saw the baby girl gasp for air and were stunned. Lowe, knowing that the nurses were busy caring for other patients in the emergency room, asked if she could hold the child she dubbed “Baby Hope” until she died. The request was granted.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Lowe wrapped Baby Hope in a blanket and settled into a rocking chair for what she imagined would be just a few minutes. She sang to her and stroked her cheeks. “I wanted her to feel that she was wanted,” Lowe explained later. “She was a perfectly formed newborn, entering the world too soon, through no choice of her own.” The baby sucked on her lower lip, opened and closed her hands, and moved a bit as Lowe held her. She also did something else — she continued to breathe on her own.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Dr. John Willke, a pro-life activist and former obstetrician, says he doesn’t quarrel with the initial determination made by the emergency-room physicians that Baby Hope was too small and too premature to survive. But, he says, when she was still alive and breathing room air 30 minutes after birth, her status should have been reassessed. An excellent neonatal care unit was a mere helicopter ride away. And she might have been saved.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As it is, nothing was done. After three hours, Baby Hope died in the arms of the compassionate Shelly Lowe. The state of Ohio issued her a death certificate. The cause of death was listed as “extreme prematurity secondary to induced abortion.” Would Dr. Haskell have issued her a death certificate at his shop, or does he simply throw the bodies in the trash?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Very few premature infants survive when born before 23 weeks, though there have been survivors at 22 weeks. Still, one has to wonder: If a woman who did want her baby spontaneously aborted in an emergency room, would the doctors have been so quick to give up on the child? Would they ignore the signs of unusual vitality this infant showed? (Most premature babies have trouble breathing without assistance. That this infant was able to breathe room air was amazing.) Was Baby Hope’s value as a human being secondary to her value to the mother?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If we judge people’s humanity by any standard other than that each is a unique individual with G-d-given rights, we demean every person’s dignity. A child is a child. Would-be adoptive parents wait years and years or go abroad in search of children to love.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Lowe was asked at a press conference what her position on abortion was. She said she had been pro-choice but was now pro-life. What changed her mind?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Three hours.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;JWR contributor Mona Charen reads all of her mail. Let her know what you think …..&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mona left out the “dirty linen bin” in her original article….FACT?<br />
“It happened recently”….FACT?<br />
What were the “facts” of the mother’s circumstance, something a doctor would consider?<br />
There must be some reason for this physician to have invented late term abortion.</p>
<p>IT IS NOT against the laws of the United States government to have an abortion! Majority rules.</p>
<p>Testimony? Under oath and all? where does one find this FACT?</p>
<p>Not a pleasant subject to be reviewing, especially when the truth is so elusive.<br />
What is one to believe with outlandish rhetoric from the one who investigated and wrote about the “recent” snafu ?</p>
<p>Let “Baby Hope rest in peace- her mother’s difficult decision, not ours, not yours.</p>
<p>Jewish World Review May 17, 1999 /2 Sivan, 5759</p>
<p>Mona Charen</p>
<p>Baby Hope</p>
<p>(JWR) —- (<a href="http://www.jewishworldreview.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.jewishworldreview.com</a>)<br />
THE WOMAN WAS 22 WEEKS PREGNANT when she sought the assistance of Dr. Martin Haskell, the originator of the partial-birth abortion procedure, to rid herself of her already-kicking child.</p>
<p>Haskell performed the first stage of the partial-birth abortion. He inserted a seaweed-based substance into the woman’s cervix and instructed her to return the following day. In the usual course of events, the seaweed absorbs the amniotic fluid from the womb and expands, thus slowly dilating the cervix. The next day, new seaweed is inserted. On the third day, the abortionist opens the cervix with his fingers, feels around for the baby’s legs and pulls them out of the birth canal. He rotates the fetus’ shoulders so that the baby’s face is oriented toward the mother’s lower back and then, using scissors, he punctures the bottom of the baby’s skull and suctions the brain out through a tube.</p>
<p>But in this case, things did not go according to plan. The woman complained of severe abdominal pain on the first night and, being far from Haskell’s clinic, reported to the emergency room of her local hospital, Bethesda North, in Cincinnati. As she was being examined (she did not say she was pregnant), the baby was born — alive. Pediatricians and neonatologists came running. The baby girl weighed in at 1 pound. The doctors decided that the child was very unlikely to survive and instructed that nothing be done.</p>
<p>Connie Boyles, a nurse, and Shelly Lowe, a medical technician, saw the baby girl gasp for air and were stunned. Lowe, knowing that the nurses were busy caring for other patients in the emergency room, asked if she could hold the child she dubbed “Baby Hope” until she died. The request was granted.</p>
<p>Lowe wrapped Baby Hope in a blanket and settled into a rocking chair for what she imagined would be just a few minutes. She sang to her and stroked her cheeks. “I wanted her to feel that she was wanted,” Lowe explained later. “She was a perfectly formed newborn, entering the world too soon, through no choice of her own.” The baby sucked on her lower lip, opened and closed her hands, and moved a bit as Lowe held her. She also did something else — she continued to breathe on her own.</p>
<p>Dr. John Willke, a pro-life activist and former obstetrician, says he doesn’t quarrel with the initial determination made by the emergency-room physicians that Baby Hope was too small and too premature to survive. But, he says, when she was still alive and breathing room air 30 minutes after birth, her status should have been reassessed. An excellent neonatal care unit was a mere helicopter ride away. And she might have been saved.</p>
<p>As it is, nothing was done. After three hours, Baby Hope died in the arms of the compassionate Shelly Lowe. The state of Ohio issued her a death certificate. The cause of death was listed as “extreme prematurity secondary to induced abortion.” Would Dr. Haskell have issued her a death certificate at his shop, or does he simply throw the bodies in the trash?</p>
<p>Very few premature infants survive when born before 23 weeks, though there have been survivors at 22 weeks. Still, one has to wonder: If a woman who did want her baby spontaneously aborted in an emergency room, would the doctors have been so quick to give up on the child? Would they ignore the signs of unusual vitality this infant showed? (Most premature babies have trouble breathing without assistance. That this infant was able to breathe room air was amazing.) Was Baby Hope’s value as a human being secondary to her value to the mother?</p>
<p>If we judge people’s humanity by any standard other than that each is a unique individual with G-d-given rights, we demean every person’s dignity. A child is a child. Would-be adoptive parents wait years and years or go abroad in search of children to love.</p>
<p>Lowe was asked at a press conference what her position on abortion was. She said she had been pro-choice but was now pro-life. What changed her mind?</p>
<p>Three hours.</p>
<p>JWR contributor Mona Charen reads all of her mail. Let her know what you think …..</p>
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		<title>By: billybugs</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-9136</link>
		<dc:creator>billybugs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/yes-mona-barack-obama-baby-killer-is-a-right-wing-fantasy/#comment-9136</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The person making these claims is a right wing anti-abortionist named Jill Stanek&lt;br /&gt;
No one could corroborate her claims it was her word and no one elses!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hardly proof in my book.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ps ever hear of google?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The person making these claims is a right wing anti-abortionist named Jill Stanek<br />
No one could corroborate her claims it was her word and no one elses!</p>
<p>Hardly proof in my book.</p>
<p>Ps ever hear of google?</p>
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