I am guessing that it probably would have been prudent to "reject" this endorsement much earlier– or perhaps not actively seek it in the first place. Knowing what these guys stand for–as his people should have, were they to have done any vetting whatsoever–should have been a warning that this day was coming:
McCain’s team canceled press conference this morning and later the candidate avoided reporters’ shouted questions during a meet-and-greet with an invited audience members at the Union City plant.
Reporters were barred from a fundraiser at Whitman’s Atherton home where the candidate raised an estimated $2.5 million. In the past, Whitman has opened her home to reporters for fundraisers and events.
When McCain starts limiting access to "his base," you know he’s in trouble. But, in his defense, it isn’t just Hagee, it is the lobbyists on staff that have represented foreign agents who make Idi Amin look like Mother Teresa.
For more on this story, go here.
Additionally, here is some insight into why McCain realized he had to make it a twofer and dump Parsley too. This report by Brian Ross of ABC was not going to be good for his campaign:
This is not the end but only the beginning. McCain is surrounded by controversial pastors, uber-lobbyists, overt racists and those being indicted by the FBI. Consider this an appetizer. And perhaps Camp McCain will begin to regret ever jumping on the Jeremiah Wright racial bandwagon.




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So?
Cliff!
Cliff, as I asked downstairs:
Did McCain just kiss off the support of the Christian Right, never to regain it? (Assuming he had its support in the first place with the Hagee endorsement).
Good morning Cliff. Saw this one this morning as well:
from TPM Josh Marshall by Josh Marshall
It’s like McCain’s Thursday Night Preacher Massacre.
Fresh off the defenestration of Rev. Hagee, now he’s dumping Rev. Parsley, the right-wing preacher-power-broker of Ohio, who says — inter alia — that America was founded to destroy Islam.
Just heard on KPHX radio…. Poll of McBush v Obama…. McBush is up 10 points over Obama….. that puts it within reach to make sure McBush looses his home state…. YEA…
Poll in AZ…. sorry
I’m sure Jane will appreciate this. This morning at HuffPo Max Blumenthal reminds us that Lieberman and Hagee are like this > ll < …</p>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..03177.html
Shorter John McCain: “What? Hagee and Parsley are insane apocalyptic racist fanatics? Why wasn’t I informed of this before I crawled on my knees to beg for their endorsements? I reject them and shun them! Boy, some heads on my staff are going to roll–those that haven’t rolled already, that is.”
defenestration, love that word,
hi and how are you TexB?
There are black folks all over Parsely’s “Center for Moral Clarity” website!
Always thought Hagee was about pandering for American Zionists support more so than the also blindered Fundys.
Center for Moral Clarity? Bwahahahahahahahahaha!
The problem for McCain is that these are the voices of the Republican base: the religious Right, the rich, corporations, anti-immigrants, and straightforward crooks. You forgot, however, the neocons.
Obama is McCain’s worst nightmare. He’s cool, where McCain is hot, and unlike our recent candidates for the Presidency, he’s got the killer instinct. Looking back, Rudy was the thug’s best possibility for pulling this one out of the fire, but he was brought down by the same crazies who are presently (though by an entirely different route) doing in McCain. I think at this point, the whole thing rides on whether the MSM think their economic interest is best served by a horse race or a route. My guess is that they are putting out feelers now to Obama’s camp, because if they oppose him and he wins big, they will pay for it down the road. Obama puts out a reconciliatory message, but I think that on some issues where the public are not likely to follow the ins and outs, he will be a killer.
Hagee…bwahahahahaha
Parsley…bwahahahaha
I know it’s not nice to laugh when a man is in trouble… but dammit, I just can’t help myself. Now, when is the SCLM going to start getting on the Cloakroom Express denizens?
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha
congratulations Cliff !
still looking to see if Parsely has made a statement
Raven – just found the Center for Moral Clarity myself – one little chickenshit snippet from an underling:
but I did see this – omfg!
“Fairness, A Ruse For Freedom’s Demise!” – bwaaahaahaahaaa!
McBush from the video:
Let us all remember this quote as McBush begins his campaign to vilify Obama.
drive-by
part of the problem with parsley is that it isn’t just parsley–another minister in lancaster, ohio is also involved, he is way involved in gop fundraising…..there was a lawsuit about his church and fundraising, i think he stepped down so he could keep on doing it….another gop fundraiser guy is hooked in it too…..
they’re the ones that backed blackwell for gov…….they are deep in the gop (goop) here. have their fingers in the state legislature because of their ’influence’…..
parsley is just one figurehead, and mouthpiece, but the organization of the other two is where the danger lies.
and when they talk, you wouldn’t know the nutcases they’re tryin’ to back/represent…….very dangerous.
got so bad that another organization of ministers came out to confront them…….
sorry no names and links, am in a hurry……just wanted to mention that here in ohio, is not just parsley and is not just about claiming the ’base’…….is an active behind the scenes political wing of the repubs.
So now presidential candidates ARE responsible for the nutty things their pastors say?
BTW the NYT has been flogging this story keeping it up on its front page since yesterday.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05…..ref=slogin
Good luck with that one, Bill. Don’t let the door hit you and Hill on the way out.
the standard take in these deals is 25% . . .nice raise for an associate pastor
yes dmac, it is very important we and others hold McLiar to his promise and keep the Parsley/fundie gotv ops out of commission
As a wise friend says, “You tell me with whom you go, and I will tell you who you are.” A quite sophisticated reminder that birds of a feather stick together.
Unless it’s Obama with a nutty pastor for 20 years.
Good luck with that one, Bill. Don’t let the door hit you and Hill on the way out.
Is this and example of the Obama-inspired unity, change, hope and end of negative politics we can expect?
Check out realclearpolitics and the article on how Clinton will likely end up with the popular vote. What then?
Boy, I sure have missed you.
The codger is gaff a minute. This is going to be a lot easier than people think.
That’s just plain silly.
That’s nice of you to say.
Some folks look for answers
Others look for fights
Some folks up in treetops
Just look to see the sights
I can tell your future
Look what’s in your hand
But I can’t stop for nothing
I’m just playing in the band
Man, I love that song.
There are no heavier hitters among users-of-religion-to-promote-politics than the leadership of the Southern Baptist Convention, Richard Land notable among them. What they’ll be saying will be along well-traveled lines, and Obama should be ready. I’m not sure that I wouldn’t, while vetting, vet a biblical scholar to be part of the campaign team.
Note: The SBC is not representative of all Baptists, and has alienated many.
Yea, I was watching shuffle off to Buffalo not long ago. . .
based on everything Cousin Cliff has taught us to date – McLiar will find some backdoor/side door means of using Parsley – remain vigilant!
He eats more chicken than any man ever seen
Cuz he’s a backdoor man
wait, wasn’t that the last thread?
Elliott I am still a mess. Back feeling somewhat better but still dizzy. Hoping to leave the house at least a little bit today.
my husband isn’t here right now or I’d ask his permission to respond to your comment *g*
As I was telling someone yesterday the only way Clinton supporters can figure that she wins the popular vote is if they stand on one leg, tilt their head, squint their left eye, and stare into the sun. Then and only then will it look like she won the popular vote
(((TexBetsy))) been following your progress over at the treehouse – vibes of pain free comfort beaming your way
I get it!
opooo you such a meannie
thank you!
In other words, you’re not going to read the article. Got it.
You need to work on that Obama inspiration and unity thing, I think. change comes with the person, dude.
Oh, you too. I thought it was just me.
Some folks SAY they’re for dissent and respect differing opinions.
Some folks just want to sing to the choir or be sung to.
Sigh.
Why is a differing opinion here ,ie: not fawning over Obama, considered picking a fight?
Got two good eyes but I still can’t see
Did you ever see the Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World scene about dividing any loot they find? “You get one share for being a person, one share for being a person in the car, ….”
In other words, I am not going to do your work for you. If you have an argument, make it. I do not accept that unity building means letting Clinton steal the race. You have this screwy notion that most of us here are dyed in the wool Obama supporters. We aren’t, but we do appreciate a well constructed, well founded argument, and we can recognize a strawman when we see it.
This is amusing- but probably won’t be on anyone’s lips come November…Obama needs to turn it into a permanent theme that will define McBush
How did this become a Clinton/Obama thread…seems dated somehow.
He might be in big trouble now. Especially if he has to “reject” or “denounce” any more of the religious right supporting him.
Should be interesting…
Huh?
Do my homework for me? I read the article. I also read articles that praise /defend Obama and have written letters to columnists in defense of him.
How many have you written in defense of Clinton?
Only hostility at this site is directed at Clinton supporters, btw. This site is obviously pro-Obama. Nothing wrong with that, but you seriously deny it?
Btw, I notice so far the responses to my post have been nothing more than nasty swipes at me (seems unObaman) rather than anything addressing the substance of any of my posts.
For instance, why is it that Obama is allowed a 20 year relationship with a divisive, nutty pastor by saying he’s not responsible for what his pastor says but McCain is known for the company he keeps, etc.?
I don’t like the double standards republicans have for themselves versus everyone else either.
Meanwhile Yahoo News gives McCain a clean bill of health. They proclaim that McCain’s hospital records show that he is cancer-free.
399.9 for regular gas in Daytona FL this morning – looks like $4 to me. DOW and Nasdaq bleeding heavily all week. More big losses today.
Follow the conversation and it should be clear.
Thanks for the congrats, but I only played a small role if any. You guys have been manning the phones, the Internets, etc. Many others have been great on this too. Everyone deserves a bow…
McBush is making his turn from whacked out gooper right winger and Clusterfuck apologist to sane centerist maverick gooper who will part with the goopers on principle when they are wrong…
If he is successful- he will be harder to beat. Now’s the time to squish him.
I’m half-expecting someone to come up with, from another Grateful Dead song, “Don’t you let that deal go down.”
funny that, not a peep about the ministers over at Beltway Tigerbeat aka Politico
“Peace-loving Muslims need the full support of all Christians,” the Web site says. It also says, “Islam is a false, dangerous religion which intends, through violence, to conquer the world.”
Both of these could be true. How can they be reconciled? Might also Christianity be a false and dangerous religion that intends through violence to conquer the world?
whereas I find Goin’ Down The Road Feelin’ Bad riffing through my head on a regular basis
come talk about super-delegates instead.
http://cliffschecter.firedogla…..ds-and-vp/
Here ya go:
“Just one thing I ask of you, just one thing for me
Please forget you know my name, my darling sugaree
Shake it, shake it sugaree, just dont tell them that you know me
Shake it, shake it sugaree, just dont tell them that you know me”
It might be easier to just let him self destruct. Without the rabid twenty percenters he has no chance to win.
OT
but of pup interest
Dalai Lama speaking on human rights in China and Tibet on CSPAN 1 right now, just started.
Opposition researchers are now searching for sugarees everywhere.
The MSM will help McCain make his transformation. McCain saw the light and he pulled a Maverick. He did not flip flop like a Kerry. It was a Maverick switcheroo based on principle.
ayup!
I still like Bobby Dylan
I ain’t gonna work for Maggie’s ma no more.
No, I ain’t gonna work for Maggie’s ma no more.
Well, she talks to all the servants
About man and God and law.
Everybody says
She’s the brains behind pa.
She’s sixty-eight, but she says she’s twenty-four.
I ain’t gonna work for Maggie’s ma no more.
what substance?
1. if you want me to read an article, then the least you can do is provide a link.
2. on wednesday i linked to jeralyn’s post on RCP’s analysis.
do you understand that one of the very few times i feel remotely like supporting obama is when i read your comments on clinton and obama? i know it’s stupid and reactionary of me, but there it is.
just to summarize how i see the actual argument: clinton is ahead by 57,284 votes – but only if the MI and FL “votes” are counted. puerto rico, montana and south dakota have yet to vote. if i have that right, i don’t see it as a convincing argument that clinton is ahead or will be ahead.
have you even listened to the good rev. wright’s sermons? he’s not nutty (although i seriously disagree with some of what he’s said), and quite frankly from the little bit i’ve heard directly from him, i admire and respect him – much more than either clinton or obama.
I empathize. While being treated this a-way, I’d like to at least be able to see my rap sheet.
First, you do not provide a workable link.
Second, we all know the tortured arguments already that Clinton supporters make about the popular vote.
Third, if some Flat Earther comes and tells me I need to go look up some article about Flat Earthihood, I am not going to rush out to read it.
Fourth, what you detect is not hostility but just exasperation at your continued failure to present anything remotely like a coherent, fact based argument.
Fifth, the math is the math, 2 plus 2 still equals 4, and the math says Clinton has lost this race.
The real question here is when are you and your candidate get over it and start helping to defeat McCain.
I find that people who feel they are losing an argument shift the focus to tactics instead of substance.
Not to mention the your country has selected a method of selecting candidates for office in which popular vote is irrelevant.
So interesting that this Obama vs Hillary thing is coming up on a McCain thread?
Heard a funny bit about Hillary going Dog Day Afternoon at the convention and taking the supers hostage…helicopters and everything.
OT– y’all gotta see cspan 2 and Bodman (ignoramus) being grilled on energy policy.
OK, but the time to change the rules is when the outcome is not currently in the balance. Oh! and Hil did that and now she doesn’t like the outcome. oh well.
exactly.
the whole thing sucks and the more i think about it the more pissed off i get.
thanks!
(((selise)))
I’m more upset about the energy execs running the country, frankly, and the criminal cabal in WH.
I’m about to place a bet at Vegas that the Diebold results in Nov. 2008 will declare GW Bush the winner over Al Gore!
Like it or not, the superdelegates will choose the nominee. This will happen because neither candidate has enough votes to go over the top without em…
All “The Math” is plain old propoganda and nothing more- becomes nearly metaphysical..
That being said- Obama has this thing pretty much locked away.
Unfortunately for us all, we will have to go through the meltdown of a
prominent public figure and the collateral damage it causes. It is about
character under too much stress to function properly, just what you want
in a POTUS… right. Never was ready for prime time, could not run
without Clinton surname as qualification for office sought, Rodham is
an overexposed lightweight very similar to her roommate in substance.
I voted for him twice, some of this mess is my fault.
Oh!
You need me to give you a link?
No problem. Here you go: http://www.philly.com/inquirer…..mbers.html
Exasperation at my incoherent arguments? I’ve asked why Obama is not responsible for his pastors words but McCain is known by the company he keeps. I haven’t gotten a response. How is that incoherent?
I’ve merely suggested people read an argument being made that Clinton could well end up with the popular vote, which Democrats (and Obamans) have argued for a while now that that is what matters, ie: the will of the people. How is that incoherent?
I’ve argued that, if you support Obama and really want change and hope and are inspired, your tone should reflect that. How is that incoherent?
I think that, for a lot of Obama supporters, incoherence is nothing more than not supporting Obama and/or supporting Clinton.
I do admire the chutzpah, though, of Obama supporters being so rude and nasty to Clinton supporters but then shrieking that we should all get behind Obama, who has not gotten the nomination yet, to defeat McCain. I suppose for the good of the children, wifey should just take her beatings too and shut up about them.
I guess I’m less upset about the party brass picking the candidates because that’s how we do it here. Local party members through their local riding associations pick the party’s candidate. The party leader is picked at a conference attended by delegates selected by local riding associations. Unless someone pays their 20 bucks or whatever and becomes a party member they get zero say in candidate selection.
Process involves no less bloodletting, I am sure. But it does not go on forever.
i think you have the right priorities.
It doesn’t really give me any heartburn- but then I don’t really care who wins.
The super delegates are a small minority and they only get to make a decision because:
1) Florida and Michigan have delegates in LimboLand
2) The two candidates are so close both in positions and in pledged delegates that the superdelegates have become the margin of victory…
Hasn’t happened since we invented the superdelegates as far as I can remember.
Thank you for that fine illustration of incoherence to which I alluded.
If I remember correctly, Hugh, ’twas you who, you know, postulated that this is an age of UNreason.
Continuing ‘evidence’ suggests that you have assessed the sit-you-ay-shun quite accurately … you meanie, you.
Adding to that, however, and in keeping with “The Operant Theory of Ongoing ‘Murkan History”:
Whatever would seem to be the ‘worst’ choice, will inevitably become the inevitable ‘choice’.
Therefore, it would well-behoove us all to comtemplate the (inevitable)likelihood of ‘Clintonian Inevitability’.
Hint: We had BETTER like it, or we (some of us) will feel disappointed.
If Clinton is not POTUS, then (inevitably)she must be offered the V-POTUS spot.
I’m certain the ‘millenials’ will understand, even if I don’t.
Obama MUST pay Clinton’s campaign debt (even if it seems very like a bribe, to me).
Obama MUST, at least, ASK for her hand in partnership, or else he is not ‘nice’, and would be seen and roundly, if not righteously, condemned as being a very bad meanie … (even if it appears to be ‘appeasement’, to me).
Everyone knows. That’s how it goes (I sincerely hope I’m utterly and completely WRONG about this … Obama needs NOT to be saddled with Clinton and Clinton, and the country and the world need a bit of a break from ‘business as usual’, was well …).
Politics is compromise.
Do we all feel compromised … yet?
Not to worry, everything will be Oil Right, my friends.
Iran it through my ‘puter and there’s lots of big money to be made, making the world safe and secure – but it might take a while, speculatively speakin’ of course.
Well, if we’re going to continue to wail about unfairness, I am an Edwards supporter. You want to talk about media coverage? At least Hillary got media coverage. All kinds. For her against her for her gender against her gender for her policies, against her policies.
That’s waaaay more than Edwards got. boo hoo.
Dodd and Biden and many more bowed out with grace and poise. And they are men. I thought women knew a thing or two about grace and poise, but how sexist of me.
sorry to cut and run, but I gtg. see y’all later.
yea yea, you tell em!
I agree. I was an Edwards supporter before Clinton.
Obama is welcome to bow out with grace and poise. No one’s stopping him.
I don’t recall anyone asking Biden or Dodd to drop out, or accusing them of destroying the party.
Yes, it’s sexist of you, because Clinton is held to a very different standard than men are. Look at the reaction to her “weepy moment”. You recall that sort of reaction when Bush41/Clinton/Bush43 wept?
I don’t. She was derided for being weak AND emotionally unstable.
Yet still no answers to my questions. Just more ad hominem attack.
sigh.
Question for you, just when did the presidency become an entitlement
program? It seems the problem with Rodham is not different standards
but any standards at all, any that she does not make up and change on
a daily/hourly/oh whatever basis.
Juno,
I’ve told you all you need to know to answer you’re question. You’ve argued both sides repeadly; ie., that Obama and his followers are head=in-the-cloud greenhorns who will be eaten alive by the cruel republicans and, on the other hand that Obama and his followers are underhanded, duplicitous, Iago’s who mistreat Hillary and her followers in every way. You claim that we need Hillary’s ability to adopt any position or tactic to gain the other hand in order to win against the Republicans. I’ve told you that you can reconcile and accept the inevitable if you adopt the position that Obama doesn’t believe a word he is saying about transparency and fairness. He only does that for public consumption. He actually meets your Macchiavellian criteria and does it far better than Hillary. That’s how he came from nowhere and has blown her away. The sooner she can wise up and feign acceptance, the sooner we can all turn on McCain and the Republicans.
So, hanging the raving maniac ministers around McCain’s neck and trying to absolve Obama from any negative effects from his relationship with Reverend Wright is a matter of pure political cunning.
These are not my personal views, but I think they offer a means for you to reach some peace with yourself and others with whom you want to converse, but who always seem to attack you without provocation.
DejaVu.
Maybe the way to get Hillary to go away — after having actually LOST THE PRIMARY — is to talk about her religious background. No, not the one her daddy and mommy brought her up in — Methodist — but the group she has had “Bible Study” with since 1993. You know, the one chock full of ultra right-wingers, like Man-on-Dog Santorum and Inhofe. Oh yea, and it’s SECRET, too. What a great story for a politician. Too bad Hillary just relies on “contacts,” which never seem to be the average American.